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jurusu
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PostSubject: Neck Job   Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:25 pm

According to Mang Anghel, the neck reset job takes around 3 days and whopping 3500 pesos.
Aside from the "finger test" (ask Luigi-kun about this), we can check if our dear violins should
undergo the painstaking process of neck resetting.

Check the highest point of your fingerboard (that is the point closest to the bridge).
Measure the clearance from its center to the violin belly.
It should be around 19.5mm to 20mm. Some books say 21mm.
I checked mine and its around 19.5mm.
I loooove the low action. No excess pressure required in higher position.

Illustration taken from Violin Repair Guide, by Michael Atria.




Luthiers use the elevation stick or some similar tool to check if the fingerboard is in correct angle.





PS
around 1500 only for beginner violins =)


Last edited by jurusu on Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
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lowell ♫
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:38 pm

galing ng illustration

nung ako nagpa reset ng neck, mas mura jan. hehehe. plus new fingerboard na yun. i wont say the price here kasi baka nagbabasa si mang anghel at batukan nya ako hahahaha. kawawa nga lang cosmetically ang bayulin after ng operasyon na itu. sandamakmak na rubbing compund ginamit ko para maalis ang scratches. hehehe.
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:55 pm

di nga lowell? nasira yung varnish? nakakatakot talaga magpa neck reset!
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:04 pm

aahahaha... di naman siguro. ~_~
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:19 pm

jurusu wrote:
di nga lowell? nasira yung varnish? nakakatakot talaga magpa neck reset!
uu, sira talaga ang finish. inexpect ko na rin yun kasi sabi ni mang anghel kakalasin yung buong neck eh (in my case talagang kalas: fingerboard replacement + neck reset, san ka pa? hahaha).

kung hindi shiny yung violin ok lang siguro, pero sa mga violin na may shiny finish like mine, mapapansin mo talaga. tinanong ko si nanay evelyn kung ano ba pwede remedy sabi nya mas maganda na ipa-revarnish, yun daw ang total remedy para pantay perpek ulit ang finish, hahaha. mahal kaya yun, so nag-rubbing compound nalang ako, um-ok naman.

after nun naisip ko pwede na ako mag-apply sa restoration department! hahaha
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:13 pm

Relative yung figures nun Jurusu ... kasi may mga Antique violins na mataas yung bout ... lalo na mga super taba na German violins tsaka yung Amati patterns ...mga "chubby" bodies ... ahahaha....
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:22 pm

Ang remedyo ko sakin binawasan yung height ng bridge..

Hehehe tama si Jurusu,, sarap ng Low action.. hehehe
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:16 am

baroqueviolin wrote:
Relative yung figures nun Jurusu ... kasi may mga Antique violins na mataas yung bout ... lalo na mga super taba na German violins tsaka yung Amati patterns ...mga "chubby" bodies ... ahahaha....

ganun ba hehehe. siguro nagaaply lang yun sa mga "modern" violins haha.
sabi din sa nasusulat ng isang author, wala pa raw siya nakita na super antique na violin na hindi nagpalit o nag modify ng neck.
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:17 am

ahahhaha oo nga. ~_~ kalokohan ata un ~_~
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:11 am

@Admin: sinukat mo ba ang neck angle mo kung OK?
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:41 am

3,500 ang sakit ng price! hehe!
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:29 am

jurusu wrote:
baroqueviolin wrote:
Relative yung figures nun Jurusu ... kasi may mga Antique violins na mataas yung bout ... lalo na mga super taba na German violins tsaka yung Amati patterns ...mga "chubby" bodies ... ahahaha....

ganun ba hehehe. siguro nagaaply lang yun sa mga "modern" violins haha.
sabi din sa nasusulat ng isang author, wala pa raw siya nakita na super antique na violin na hindi nagpalit o nag modify ng neck.

1. modern violins kasi usually ang pattern is Stradivarius and Guarnerius - maninipis ang bodies ... hindi bloated

2. hmmmm dalawa pagkakaintindi ko sa meaning nung author na yun

yung isa na pagkakaintindi ko is = "wala pa sya nakikitang Old violin with its original neck" ... tama ba ?

... kasi marami jang violins na Hindi "nachop-chop" yung Original Baroque neck ... may mga (Renaissance/Early Baroque violin) Amati sa London at USA, 2 Stainers na may original necks (isa na dun yung nandun sa poster ni Mang Anghel), Gagliano Violins (gamit ni Rachel Barton-Pine for her baroque ensemble, at Andrew Manze etc.) ... maraming Renaissance at Baroque Violin na nakaligtas sa "Patalim"

Amati Viola sa Ashmolean Museum, Oxford, England


Amati Violin sa Museum ng Music Instruments s US
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:49 am

A comparison of the Baroque, Classical and Modern Necks - by Dimitry Badiarov

for more on the topic pls visit - http://www.arttowermito.or.jp/music/badiarov99.html



Renaissance/Baroque - Baroque/Classical - Modern way of holding the Violin





Modern Neck (1830s - present day)

Modern violin

It seems the easiest to start with that type, since it is the best known. A
modern violin, i.e. that of the 20th century, has the following features: more
or less standardized dimensions of the parts such as the neck, fingerboard,
bridge, tailpiece, and that of the inside parts such as bass bar, the blocks,
linings, etc. The neck is always mortised into the body with inclination
backward and is straight. It has the maximum space between the hill and the
button for the ease of reaching the high positions. A fingerboard is always of
ebony, and it has always the same arching of the cross section. The lower
strings may be of wound steel, perlon, nylon, or pure gut, whereas the steel e
became common only around the first and the Second World War. The bridge is
invariably placed between the f-hole notches. Response is equal on every
string.


Baroque Neck (c. late 1500s - 1750s)


Baroque violin

Baroque violin between 16th and 18th centuries did not have any standardized
dimensions of any part. The lengths of fingerboards, designs and placement of
the bridges depended on local pitch standards, skills of the players' etc.
Neither it ever had a fingerboard of solid ebony. Many of the baroque violins
had neither any blocks nor linings inside. Even such an important part as the
bass bar was often not in the 16th and 17th century's violins.
Hypothetically
it was introduced at the turn of the centuries but it is hard to say exactly
either where or by whom. The necks could be either thinner or thicker, usually
at a straight line with the body, nailed to the block if there was any, either
simply glued to between the table and the back. The bridge could have all
possible to imagine designs and would be pretty flat, just as the fingerboard.

The strings on the violin were all guts before ca.1750, a wound lower string on
a bass or cello was introduced in the end of the 17th century. Response of such
strings was not equal. The top strings are the easiest to play. That is why the
most of the music in 17th century is written for the top strings. If a composer
wrote for lower strings, a very particular sound effect was meant: a sound,
which seems to be much lower than it actually is.

An unforgettable, indeed, effect! Extension of violin technique in the early baroque period determined
holding the instrument on the shoulder rather than on the breast because this
posture gives maximum freedom to the left hand. As a result it has influenced
design of the neck and placement of the bridge: an instrument supported on the
shoulder is more manageable with the thinner necks and higher placed bridges,
i.e. with bridges in its modern position. However, research encounters both
types of postures in the baroque period and the relevant set-ups of the
instruments.





Classical Neck (c. 1770s - 1820s)


CLASSICAL VIOLIN

A classical violin naturally emerges from its baroque predecessor. By the end
of the 18th century violins usually had linings and blocks, their ribs were not
mortised into the backs and they had bass bars. Aesthetical demands of the
music in a decadence of the Baroque and early Classical period assured holding
the violin on the shoulder, though a few of village violinists might still have
played violins on the breast. Generally, the necks of the classical instruments
are thinner than baroque ones, and their heels are smaller. Such necks allowed
more freedom to the left hand. It differs from the robust, shorter-inner-curve
baroque prototype as much as it does from the modern one: classical neck is
more robust than the modern neck. This allows using old left-hand technique,
more suitable for the style, than the modern one.

Originally the neck of the violin was not inclined backward as it is nowadays.
The practice of neck inclination was introduced in the countries of the
Northern Europe, France and Germany in the end of the 18th century. Although as
late as 1772, A. Bagatella, in the earliest known treatise about violin making,
wrote, that the neck should be set straight. One of the commonly held opinions
concerning the reasons for neck inclination lies in the belief that it was done
for the sake of higher tension of the strings. However, research in the history
of strings suggests that the inclination was introduced for the sake of thinner
root of the neck.









Pinapako pa pati yung necks ng karamihan ng Baroque Violins (except i think sa Dutch violin making school)


Last edited by baroqueviolin on Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:48 pm; edited 9 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:15 pm

Pinapako talaga?? eh di meron nang metal part ang violin kung ganun? kasi ang alam ko (AFAIK) walang metal part ang paggawa ng violin maliban sa fine tuner at string wound..
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:20 pm

@baroque: kaw na ang maging "authority" hehehe.

grabe ang pagkakapako!
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:23 pm

di naman lahat may pako ahaha....... tska lahat ng old violins na nareset na ang necks at napalitan ng modern - wala nang pako ... (i think) nag die out na yung practice ng pagpapako especially bandang 1830s onwards... v^_^
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:52 pm

Yung Amati violin sa pic yung hawak ng babae, parang ang laki! parang viola na!
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:51 pm

@jurusu
viola nga yun ... ahahahaha... ^_^
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:40 pm

Viola nga! may nakasulat pala hahaha!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:41 pm

@kundarmah: gian ilan ang sukat ni berry at kelangan na ireset? gano kababa sya?
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:52 pm

Ewan nakalimutan ko na sinabi nia eh lol
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:18 pm

waaa wag ako icredit mo jurusu sa finger test,, si kuya ron nag sabi nun, haha sya ang "authority" eh. hahhaha
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:35 pm

eh ikaw kaya nagsabi sa kin nun luigi!!! i credit mo na lang si baroque. hahaha.
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:00 am

Hoy ... ano na naman yan ???!!!! .... bat nasasangkot na naman ang pangalan ko dito ha ???!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:25 pm

Kasi pag ikaw ang nagsalita "A U T H O R I Z E D"
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:39 am

Hai to all,

I have an old violin which I unfortunately bought when I did not know any better (i.ee., sobrang beginner, nanggigigil magka first instrument)... The usual chinese, with an ebonized fingerboard, chinrest, tailpiece and pegs...

Now, since it is my first violin, and it having sentimental value na rin (I bought it in 1992) I thought I should have it set up, and maybe improved on, and the obvious thing to do would be just change the fittings, right? But then, there is the Ebonized Fingerboard... What should I do about it? So I thought, hmmmm, have the fingerboard replaced with an ebony one, obviously...

But then, I came across this thread, and it discusses the Neck Angle, which got me thinking. You see, the fingerboard on my old one is pretty low, and I suspect that there could be something wrong not just with the fingerboard but with the entire neck. Although with the strings and bridge in place, it does play naman...

So, (sorry for the looooonnnggg discussion), my question is, if I have the Fingerboard replaced with an ebony one on my old violin, will it also need a Neck Reset? This is because I am also concerned with the finish, which I know will probably be affected around the neck area where it joins the body...

Thanks,

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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:55 pm

Chum, if the angle is too low, the neck should be reset. I mentioned the "too" because some angles are acceptable if they are within the range (and im thinking with some percent of plus/minus tolerance). But if its wayyyy too low, it should be reset.

If you are not using the violin and if youre keeping it as part of your violin army (coz youre a helluva violin collector... i only have a 4 violin army and i think you have a battalion excluding your vintage guitars woooohhhhh~~) i suggest to just leave it as it is. Resetting your violin is a major job (woodworks plus paint job (varnish)). Its not just like botox and breast augmentation. Its like sending your violin to an ortho hospital.

Part of being a violin enthusiast or a collector is to know the nitty gritty details of the violin.
... and so i bought this lutherie book in amazon hahaha... and made this thread. haha.
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:19 am

Hi Jurusu,

There's the rub, I would like to use the violin sana. This was my first violin after all, and it does have a nice sound din, although I really am bothered by the fingerboard. When I talked to Mang Angel over the phone, I only asked about the cost of replacing the fingerboard, but we never talked about having the neck reset.

Well, I suppose we will see what happens. I'm planning to visit him during the Xmas break, or before the new year.

Cube
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:30 pm

Hi guys,just got back from mang angel, as Lowell said mas mura nga yung neck reset, pinasabay ko na rin yung kabit ng fittings at new bridge from mang bude, hopefully makuha ko yung violin before the new year, marami kasi nagpapagawa Kay mang angel ngayon.

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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:33 pm

;)) di naman siya nauubusan eh. Magkano singil sayo?

2 months ko ata bago nakuwa si Berry ~___~
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:21 pm

how much would it cost me for fingerboard regluing kay mang anghel... umangat kasi yung sakin as in it nearly fell off.. buti na lang napansin ko kaagad...


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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:20 pm

@ kundarmah less than 2k lang. hindi rin pala mahirap pumunta sa kanila, kasi nakita ko kaagad yung rhexan academy at police station, salamat sa mga nag-post ng pix ng lugar
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:29 pm

@lenz: ano yung 2k na yun.. ano inayos po....??? maeestimate mo kaya kung gaano aabutin yung sakin? if kay mang anghel?
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:56 pm

@ kramsun: neck reset, sumobra kasing baba nung fingerboard ko. kung baga sa kotse lowered na siya. malala na daw sabi ni mang angel. sinabay ko na yung pag-kabit ng fittings at bridge na nabili ko.
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:17 pm

yung sakin naman.. ay mukang okay pa... kaso lumambot ata yung glue na nagkakapit sa f/b at neck kaya bumigay.. ayun... =(( feeling ko di na kelangan ng neck resetting... magkano kaya pag yun lang?
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:39 pm

hmm, try asking mang anghel, I'm not sure kung yun lang ang papagawa mo. siya talaga makakatingin at makakapagsabi kung magkano yung repairs na kailangan sa violin mo.
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:43 pm

wahuhuhuhu... kelan ka ba nagpunta... sana pala nakasabay ako... kakamember ko lang kasi dito.. =(( at isa pa wala pa ako money sa ngayon.. haaaist. =(( Poor violin..
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:50 pm

kanina lang ako pumunta dun. taga-saan ka ba kramsun? taga-tandang sora lang ako,madali lang pumunta kay mang angel. kung gusto mo sumama sa akin after christmas, baka sa 29 daw matapos yung violin ko.
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:06 pm

taga quezon province ako lenz... =).. hahahaha... kaya mahirap pumunta... kaya naghahanap din ako ng mga luthiers na malapit dito samen, or laguna sana... PLUS! I guess wala pa ako pera by that time =((.. hehehe. pero kung pupunta ako dun, baka sayo na lang ako magpasama. =))
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:35 pm

sure, just keep us posted. minsan kasi nagiging mini-eb ang papgpunta kay mang angel pag marami ang sumasama.
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:36 pm

si mang tulio. tiga laspinas. malapit lang sa inyo.
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:46 pm

mura lang din ba kay mang tulio?? mas malapit yun samin.
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:11 pm

@lenz: haha nawala kami nung pumunta dun. un din palatandaan ko kea nahanap namin! haha =))
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:33 am

@ luigi: sabi pa nga ng driver ng jeep mag-tricycle daw ako para mahanap ko daw kaagad, buti na lang I trusted my instincts.he he
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Lenz
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:25 pm

happy new year everyone, nakuha ko na rin yung violin ko, I must say mang angel did a great job. Yung fittings at bridge bagay na bagay.The sound really improved, although maraming discolorations sa paligid nung inayos niya ok lang. Just as long as maganda yung tunog ok na sa akin.
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kanjiruminamoto
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:32 am

@ Kuya Lenz Picture po !
Picure! Picture!
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Lenz
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:17 pm

@ kanji: wala pa akong magandang kuha sa violin ko, pag meron na post ko kaagad.
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:58 am

seriously? 3500? 1500 yung akin :D

handcrafted kasi sa inyo =P
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T@l Blaiser
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:21 am

Lenz wrote:
The sound really improved, although maraming discolorations sa paligid nung inayos niya ok lang. Just as long as maganda yung tunog ok na sa akin.

bakit may discoloration? hinde ba na iiwasan iyun?
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Lenz
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PostSubject: Re: Neck Job   Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:37 pm

@ Tal: yun yata kasi yung gamit ni mang angel na varnish sa mga violin na inaayos niya, dun lang sa part ng neck connecting to the upper bout , so hindi pantay dun sa violin ko. tingin ko naman kaya siya ma-remedyuhan.
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