Hi all,

Have you ever try to imagine what composer/conductor want the audience to feel/see/hear with their musical piece?

Like the title said its not really particularly in just reading the music sheet but to forecast the feelings/emotions of a particular piece what to express..

(wait nosebleed)

Napanuod ko sa isang anime series at ginawang live action na "Nodame Cantabile" yun nasa class siya in paris which nagrogroup discussion sila parang they debating what the particular piece what to express..I hope everyone would join..


Anyone can post any type of music (classical,folk,modern,pop.etc)

Just post the link that you so we could listen on the particular piece you what us to discuss..(para maiwasan natin ang different versions of the song)

First Musical Piece that I want to know that the others see in this piece
Pachelbel's Canon in D Major

Hello Fox !!! Nice nice !!!

Generaly it goes both ways....there are 2 types of Interpretations. And two type of works. ;-)

Sa pyesa muna... ^_^

May mga pyesa na may Definite Meaning. (hindi purely abstract as in may definite thing, animal or person na nirerepresent) ... at maraming tawag sa kanya. It's called

1. Sonata Representativa (kasi may nirerepresent) aka Programme/programmatic music and later on "Synfonia Representativa."

Eto sampol --->


Sa pyesa ni Biber na yan na kinompose nya bandang 1669 ... maririnig mo ang
II. The Nightingale
III. The Cuckoo
IV. The Frog
V. The Hen and Cockerel
VI. The Quail
VII. The Cat
VIII. The Musketeer's March

nung time na kinompose ni Vivaldi yung Four Seasons noong 1720s ... considered as "out of fashion" in other words Laos na yung mga Sonata Representativa nung time na yun.. and it's just interesting to note that. :-)


2ndly mga Purely Abstract pieces ... na walang nirerepresent na concrete things.... like yang Canon and Gigue ni Johann Pachelbel... ^_^

sa Interpretation naman ....

There are generally two types of Interpretations =

1. Classical Interpretation (meaning you stick to the letters). Pag sinabi sa poem "namatay si Juan" you should treat the character as a "dead person" .... ;-)


2. Romantic Interpretation (what you feel) ... kung ano ang feeling mo na nangyari sa bida yun na nga yung nangyari ... kung sabi sa poem "nakahiga ang bata" ...pero feeling mo ang gloomy gloomy ng buong poem .. then you could interpret it as "Death."


kaya poetry ang gamit ko dito as example kasi hindi lang naman limited sa music ang Interpretation eh ... pwede sa painting, sa dance ... etc....

eto magandang excerpt about interpretations and the Possible Dangers of "inauthentic text".... mapa music or poetry etc. --->



sa excerpt ng film na yan.. ung student na nag analyze ng poem ginamit nya ang feeling nya at pinairal ang emotions sa pag interpret ng poem. The problem was, yung poet na nagsulat nung poem, may hidden message sa text mismo ng poem. Multi dimension ung poem. So kailangan talagang sa Text sya mag base.... kaso another problem was yung Edition ng poem na nakuha nya ay sadly EDITED na.... and hindi lang limited sa poetry ang mga "pasaway'' na editions na yan.

Yes, even in Music Scores may mga Inauthentic, and heavily edited scores. And that would be a big mistake. Kaya nga ako, although adik yung ginagawa ko, pero mas gustu ko tugtugin if available, yung Manuscript Version. As in yung sulat kamay nung composer, or kung hindi man at least yung Early Publication man lang. ;-)

Now don't get me wrong.... may mga Arrangements of course... pero to pass something off as the "original" ... hindi tama yun.

I can attest to that at saksi si JM hahaha.

Sa books naman preferred ko ung Unabridged version. Kasi pag abridged na, either pinasimple na ung text, or inedit na yung text.

Now what i feel sa video na pinost mo - Canon ni Pachelbel....

sa Classical Interpretation (sa text) it has no concrete meaning for me... although may power yung pyesa (tawag nila Affekt) as in the power to move my emotions....



moving on to (my own personal) Romantic Interpretation, i see a green meadow .... with birds. My picture of Calm. ^_^


*by the way, Romantic Intepretation kasi nauso noong Romantic Period (1790s onwards) ang pagbibigay ng mga tao (audiences) ng kanilang sariling interpretation sa piece (very personal) based on what they feel, what images or feelings ang naeevoke ng isang pyesang narinig nila.

Ayan, just a few too many cents of my thought ... Peace ^_^V

@Baroque

Nice one.. dami ko agad natutunan ah.. thanks!

You're welcome Fox !!! ^_^

sakin naman. parang theme siya ng isang buong day sa nature. yung first part e morning and slow. yung mga hayop e bagong gising pa lang. tapos pagdating dun sa "chorus", start na ng day nila. hunting, playing, etc. exploration and adventure. tapos yung mid part continue lang yung araw at buhay2 nila. tapos sa ending e gabi na uli.

haha. so much for an interpretation. sorry, i'm not good at it. :))

jagg18 wrote:

haha. so much for an interpretation. sorry, i'm not good at it. :))

@jagg

ok lang yan, everyone has its own interpretation, kaya nga ginawa ko toh for everyone to share their thoughts on a particular song/music,, and ang gandang ng interpretation ko. i played the song and imagine your interpretation,, its actually fun at tska hindi mahirap to view your interpretation, pakiramdam ko ako si tarzan or one of the animals in the scene.

Galing ni Baroqueviolin! Thumbs up!

Well okay, aking POV:

Well, as an artist I always express things the way I perceive it, so on the wild side kanya kanyang interpretation ito. but that is not how things work. We artist have to bend to what the audience wanted to see and hear... at least halfway[50/50]. and there are some artist who are courageous enough to fight for what they believe... but, they usually end up being what we called the "Starving Artist" or end up with only a handful of followers.

The way I see it, in order to get the vote from the majority you will have to give what they want. New styles and art movement are always met with bitter rejection at first, since the majority are afraid of changes. but once accepted by the majority, they suddenly became famous... but only to a few who manage to live and see its fruition. hypocrisy? maybe, but that is our nature.

So "Have you ever try to imagine what composer/conductor want the audience to feel/see/hear with their musical piece?" They give what the people/majority want.

Just my 2 cents.

parang mali title mo Fox, misleading, muntik ko ng mailipat sa Skill Improvemnt Sub-Forum dahil sa title =))

So parang ang ibig mo bang sabihin is, Kung ako ay tutugtog ng pyesa eh paano ko ipaparating sa audience ko yung gustong iparating originally nung composer nung time na kinompose nya yung pyesa?

Depapepe's interpretation of Pachelbel's Canon was the first one I enjoyed without feeling like crying. It's a very happy and sunny rendition! I guess as long as a composer isn't "bastardized" with the way we interpret their creations, it shouldn't be so bad. Of course, if we are in music school and earning our laurels, there will be the need to stick to every minute detail of the score.

@Fox

I just attended a piano masterclass last week and the master who taught the class talked about how to approach a music piece before actually starting to play it.

Sabi niya na if you are trying to learn a piece, try to take some time to learn the background nung piyesa. Find out about the composer's life and alamin kung ano nangyayari sa kapaligiran niya during the time when he composed the piece. Ano yung nangyayari sa personal life ng composer? Ano yung mga iba pang piyesa that he composed during the time as well? Dun pa lang, makakakuha ka na ng idea kung ano yung gustong paratingin ng composer.

Depende sa era, ang composer, na-obliga mag-compose dahil utos ng hari (member siya ng court) o kaya ng Church. Later na lang yung gagawa ng piyesa ang composer dahil trip niya (in love siya, malungkot siya, may friend na gusto niyang gawan ng concerto) or minsan na man may commission pa rin pero sa mga patron na nila yun na private individual at kadalasan, yung composer pa rin ang may control.

Kaso lang, since centuries ago pa ito, hindi madali malaman ang mga sagot at kadalasan mga guesswork na lang din ang ibang kasagutan. Di rin alam ang circumstances regarding sa Canon ni Pachelbel dahil nahalungkat na lang siya nung mga early 20th century at wala masyadong alam kung ano talaga ang nangyari sa piyesa na yan nung kapanahunan niya.

Pero kahit na may history na nakaka-overwhelm ang mga piyesa, mag-iiwan ka pa rin ng imprint mo whenever you play kasi may sariling experience ka rin. Out of respect na lang sa piyesa, composer at sa music for you not to bastardize the piece. But you can't help but give it the proper respect once you know the history of the piece.

@Near
hahaha pasensya na, hindi ko sigurado tawag sa ganitong gawain haha.. both sabi ni baroque, the interpretation of the composer. and your interpretation as well.

@Ruslan
ganun pala iyon, pero siguro its depends na din sa present time how we interpret it. Its doesnt mean we have to bastardize the piece but to show how the piece evolve thru time and still in the flow ika nga. back to the topic. i just wanted to learn how people interpret different piece, lalo na classical kase wala itong lyrics hindi katulad sa mga music natin ngayon. I wanted to know everyone POV on the particular piece.

After we discuss pachelbel canon, post nalang kayo ng links or videos of a particular song/piece.. then we try to interpret it individually..just for fun

@Fox

kung interpretation ang pagbabasihan... malawak yan. Pwedeng iinterpret as a Classicist as in "A la lettre" (letra por letra).

Pero magkakaiba rin kasi ng attitude at views ang mga tao = audience, musicians, composers kada period (Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, Romantic).

Si Pachelbel ay nabuhay at nagcompose during the Baroque Period. At ang baroque period ay hindi simpleng panahon. Maraming Paradox sa time na yan. Hindi uso ang minimalism. Lahat Engrande, Pomposo (garboso=magarbo) at over loaded sa detalye. Kaya nga puro maiitim na notes ang nasa score ng Canon & Gigue ni Pachelbel eh - ung hindi simplified ha. :)))

Masyado rin kasing malawak ang Baroque Style para sabihing "ito lang sya"... at lalong mas malawak ang "Classical Music" as a genre kasi sakop nito ang Early Music : Renaissance 1400s - 1600; Early Baroque (Stylus Fantasticus) 1600 - 1680; High Baroque (Late Baroque - sila Vivaldi) 1680s - 1760s; Galant style 1730s - 1760s; Classical period 1750s - 1830; Romantic period 1810 - 1910; Impressionistic period 1860s onwards; Modern & Contemporary 1900 - 2000 etc etc.... o_O

Kung iisipin mo, ang lawak ng panahon na yun !!! 500 years or so ... plus panahon pa natin ngayon !!! Yes, May nagcocompose parin ng "Contemporary Classical" at baroque style ngayon...

At nag-ooverlap pa yang mga period na yan. Si Beethoven nagcocompose pa ng Classical Style symphonies, habang sina Schubert nagcocompose na ng Romantic Style pieces. Isipin mo nalang na sa US may mga Boy Bands pa hanggang bandang 2003 samantalang kasabayan noon nauuso at umaabot na sa atin ang mga Alternative Bands.... ^_^

Kung sa point of view ng players and how they will interpret it maraming possibilidad.

As a Period Player ikokonsider mo si Pachelbel as =
1. composing sa South German style

2. Organist sya na gaya ni Bach, kaya pag-dating sa Bar 19 ng Score e nangingitim at nakakabulag na ang mga Notes - http://icking-music-archive.org/scores/pachelbel/kanon4.pdf

3. Rhetorical ang Baroque music. It closely follows the human speech (syllables ng speech) kaya hindi rin uso ang Long Legato lines na usong uso na ngayon.

4. at dahil hindi naman noon uso ang Long Legato lines, hindi nila kailangan ng mahahabang Bows. In general maiikli ang Baroque Bows. At dahil puro inventions noong panahon na yun - walang Standard ang lahat ng bagay. Maiikli ang bows sa lugar nila Bach sa Germany, pero Mahahaba naman ang bows sa lugar nila Corelli sa Italy.

5. uso sa Baroque period ang Improvisation, at kabaliktaran ito ng nabanggit ni Yuuko-chan sa Classical interpretation na "Play as Written."

6. Improvisation - Hanggang sa time ni Mozart umabot yang ''usong'' style na yan ng pagiimprovise. Pano magiimprovise ? ...sa ournaments. Yung mga trills at mordents, acciacatura, appoggiatura etc etc. Si Beethoven nagpangabot sila ni Mozart, subalit ayaw ni Beethoven ng ganun. Nagagalit sya kapag nagdadagdag ng mga Ournaments ang mga players, na hindi naman nya isinulat.

Ang sa Canon naman parang "Shagedy Shagedy Shapopo" .... pano ka magiimprovise sa ganun ??? .... hahahaha syempre ung 3 violins hindi pwede mag improvise.... saan nga ba ??? e di sa Bass line... sa Basso Continuo (continuous bass)... :-)
Yung Canon kasi ni Pachelbel ay isang uri ng Passacaglia (aka Chaconne) - meaning nau-una munang magsimula yung Bass bago yung Treble Instruments. At dahil nga magarbo ang Baroque period, hindi lang iisang instrument ang na-tugtug ng Bass Part. Harpsichord/chamber organ, cello, at isang plucked instrument (either baroque guitar or lute/Theorbo). Paulit ulit lang yung Bass ng Canon pero may room para mag-improvise yung ibang players like sa Part ng Guitar/Lute.

Eto sample ng nagiimprovise sa Bass ng Canon --->



At gaya ng Nabanggit din ni Tal, nakabase ang music sa demand ng audience, at sa style nung time nila. Plus mga ''revolutionary'' ideas na hindi basta basta natatanggap ng Audience. Mahilig yung Prince-Archbishop ng Salzburg na Patron ni HIF Biber sa mga Programmatic Music na nagiimitate sa mga Tunog ng Hayup kaya may Sonata Representativa in A Major sya na ni-recycle din nya sa isa pa yang piece na "Battaglia" in D Major.


at sa Modern Symphony Orchestra syempre iaakma nila sa Instrumentation nila ito. Since wala naman silang Theorbo at Lute (mga baroque instruments na Out of Fahion na nung Time nila Beethoven at Mendelssohn) nareduce na sya sa part ng Cello at Bass. At sa ating Modern Rock Band, Bass Guitar nalang ang na-tugtug ng role/part na ito.

7. Recycling and Transcriptions
By the way, usong uso rin noong Baroque Period ang pagre-recycle ng mga Composers ng mga previos works nila. Si Vivaldi mahilig mag-recylce. May Opera si Vivaldi na hindi mo matatanggi galing sa Spring ng Four Seasons nya yung melody. Di ko nga lang ma-upload pa sa youtube kasi lagi kong nakakalimutan... o_O

Mahilig din si Vivladi mag-transcribe ng previous works nya. Yun nalang Tempesta di Mare nya may Version (transcription) for Recorder and Strings, at yung popular na version dito sa atin since wala tayog Recorder Player - yung transcription for Transverse Flute (German Flute). Kaya 'to ginagawa ni Vivaldi at mga kapwa nya Baroque Player kasi halos lahat ng compositions nila "Tailor Made" either para sa kanila mismo being Composer-Violinists or for Fellow Virtuoso Musicians.

Si Haydn kinompose itong

(to be continued... kakaen lang ako dinner- masama pakiramdam kaya maagang hapunan)

As Requested by Fox,

Share ko lang.... a piece by a relatively unknown Baroque Violinist-Composer (and Baroque Guitarist) .... Diverse Bizzarie sopra la Vecchia Sarabanda o pur Ciaccona ~ Nicola Matteis

*Note the differences in Mood depending on
1.) Tempo - Mas mabagal yung pagkakatugtug ni Rachel Podger compared sa dalawang version ni Amandine Beyer

2.) Instrumentation - yung kay Rachel Podger (baroque violin, viola da gamba, baroque guitar).... yung kay Amandine Beyer (baroque violin, baroque guitar, viola da gamba, harpsichord)

3.) at pati na rin yung Beginning at Ending.... yung version ni Rachel Podger nag "da capo" sya sa dulo - meaning bumalik sya sa Intro, at pinaulit ulit nya ito at ginawang Ending... habang ung 2nd interpretation naman ni Amandine Beyer tinapus nya kaagad yung pyesa. Sinunod ni Amandine yung nasa Score ng pyesang to ni Matteis.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

A.) Slower version by Rachel Podger


B.) Faster Version ni Amandine Beyer with a longer baroque guitar intro


C.) Older interpretation ni Amandine Beyer, more than a year before her official CD release - dito yung Harpsichord ang nag-intro, at may trilling improvisation din yung harpsichord sa bandang gitna.



***Note na yung bass part ng score nito ay napaka ikli lang. 5 Bars lang na Continuous Bass. So all through out the performance Nagi-improvise lang yung guitarist, theorbo player at harpsichordist....

Continuation ng Recycling at Transcription

Pati si Bach nagtranscribe din ng mga pyesa ni Vivaldi... apparently na-impress si religious German Bach kay flamboyant Il Prete Rosso Venetian Vivaldi para itranscribe nya yung mga Violin Concerti ni Vivaldi..... into Harpsichord Pieces.

Wala namang masama sa Transcriptions eh ... 1600s pa ginagawa na nila to.... ^_^

Ang sana lang - proper labeling and info. May danger kasi ng bias kapag mis-labeled yung pyesa eh. Like yung "La Follia" Violin Sonata ni Corelli arrangement ni Suzuki na based sa arrangement ni Kreisler. Ang nakalagay lang sa page "Corelli" ... i wish they would properly label it. "from the Kreisler arrangement"

Kasi may tendency magkakaroon ng Prejudice kapag narinig na yung original score... o_O

Ang alam ko iniimprove na ang Suzuki Books at malamang magmumura na ang mga currently on shelves na copies ngayon.... ^_^

Original Score ng "La Follia" ni Arcangelo Corelli


Transcription for Recorder


Version ni Kreisler kung saan based ang version ni Suzuki

better change the title to something like, "Musical Analysis" ;)

Ito is right.

Your question is more of musical analysis. :) All the elements of music is involved here. Sabi nga ng mga prof ko dati, lahat ng keys iba't iba ang flavor at characteristics. Kaya minsan, yung song na nasa A Major pag trinanspose sa ibang key, nagiiba ang feel nya. Pero I think, parang pag nagbabasa tayo ng literary work, we need to look beyond the words written by the author. Same lang din sa music. We need to look beyond the notes we are reading in order for us to understand the meaning. Pero syempre, part pa rin nun yung pagbabasa ng life ng composer and how he created the piece. Iba-iba kasi yung situations and inspirations ng composer sa bawat piece. Minsan, nasa player din yung interpretations. For example, Meditation from Thais. You can search the different violinist who played this and you'll see that most of them differ in their interpretations. Although, andun yung flavor ng sweetness because that's what the piece is all about. :)

Yung canon in d naman, it's a baroque piece that is turning to a romantic piece nowadays. Although ayos lang naman sa akin ang innovation, pero I'd still prefer the baroque style of playing the canon in d. It shows the contrapuntal movement more than the romantic way of playing it. (I hope you understand what I mean) :)

I hope that helps.

@Tr. Elle Cee

limited lng alam ko sa Music Theory and technical stuff ... and the modern / romantic technique... share your thoughts naman pow.... ^_^

parang analysis ang dating? O_O